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Poster: Jim Carlile Date: Oct 30, 2008 2:46am
Forum: texts Subject: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

Unlike the Archive, Google is refusing to make available any post-1922 books for free full-view download or viewing, despite the fact that their scanning agreements with the host libraries explicitly require them to have all PD books available for free.

Why is this? If the Internet Archive can research a newer book's copyright status, then why can't Google, especially when they boast about having all the renewal records in their own database?

Beware of Google Books-- it was never about altruism, this scanning project-- it was a scheme to get ahold of long out-of-print books, and then license them for a fee. Nothing wrong with that, except the false piety that has surrounded the project from the beginning.

I suspect if they can get away with it-- or change the scanning agreements-- they will attempt to hoard a lot public domain books for a fee. They've made no effort so far to tag them.

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Poster: garthus Date: Oct 30, 2008 8:21pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

This is why it is critical that as many of these books, documents, and other materials in the public domain are digitized as open source or creative commons works. Once enough of these works are publicaly available it will not be possible for organizations such as google and the book publishing monopolies to control access to these materials.

Gerry

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Poster: Jim Carlile Date: Oct 30, 2008 11:36pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

Right, it means that there's still a reason for the Archive to keep scanning away. I'd bet real money that Google will continue to hoard PD works, and won't make much of an effort to identify PD post-1922 books-- despite the fact that their library agreements require them to make all PD works available full-view.

BTW, there's nothing in the UC agreement (at least) that requires Google to allow downloads of PD works-- just "displays." They could discontinue this feature at any time.

Also, has anyone looked at the specific terms of the google settlement?-- it's really mickey mouse-- no downloads or printing of the in-copyright books-- you get to pay for "online access" only, which makes it totally useless for students, unless you like taking notes on legal pads with your laptop balanced somewhere.

And the free public library access? You get to view the book on a "designated terminal." Wow.

I mean, the whole settlement is really limited. The librarians and others who are raving about how wonderful this is are clueless.

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Poster: garthus Date: Oct 31, 2008 5:35am
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

Speaking of clueless, I work for a library consortium and they are resistent to downloading any requests for Interlibrary loan from the internet archive or other online services, because they apparently are afraid that others will find out that the interlibray loan of Public domain books (available over the internet) at great expense is taking place, when the librarians instead should be using the reources which are already available from the Internet archive and similar digital collections.

One day, I hope in the not so distant future, the economic situation here in the united states may force them to finally wake up. In the mean-time if we keep plugging away, there will be an archive built which they finally cannot ignore.
:)

Gerry

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgirl2k Date: Oct 31, 2008 2:25pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

In no defense of the settlement, section 4.1.d ("basic features of institutional subscriptions") states that subscriptions will enable users to view, copy/paste [4 pages at a time], and print pages [20 pages at a time] of a Book..." Were you referring to in-print books?

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Poster: Jim Carlile Date: Nov 1, 2008 11:53pm
Forum: texts Subject: Re: Why isn't Google verifying copyright status of newer works?

You're right-- my mistake. But downloading in-copyright books is not allowed, which makes it all pretty useless, IMO. Just good for browsing. Even if you BUY the book, you're stuck watching it online.

The printing allowances are pretty lousy, I think-- and public libraries have to charge per page, at the one free terminal they get to have.

Also-- no remote access unless you belong to an institution. It's all in-house viewing. And has anyone looked at clause 6.3 b()?

It's a recipe for public-domain disaster-- in a nutshell, if they accidentally charge for PD books, and the alleged "rightsholder" gets the money-- they get to keep it! And at no time are patrons ever refunded any monies paid for PD works.

Know what that means? No incentive to investigate PD status. Why should they-- Google gets to keep a 1/3 cut of every books sale. It also sets up a precedent for eventually charging for PD downloads.

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